Sony stops production of all a7 II series and a6400 cameras due to chip shortages (2024)

San2C

Because it's still a good camera that costs less than the newer models?

Dec 1, 2021permalink

Borlean

IQ is still on par with newest models

Dec 5, 2021permalink

Malling

A6000 is still there, A6300 and A6500 where discontinued some time ago.

Nov 28, 2021permalink

StoneJack

they sell less of new cameras to extent their market share is consists almost exclusively of A6400 and etc. Their old and cheaper cameras suffocate their business. It is like if Apple was still selling iPhone 4S for cheap prices - who would then buy Apple Pro Max for 1000 dollars? Very few would and its market share will be big and consist of mainly older generations and cheaper cameras.

Nov 27, 2021*permalink

(unknown member)

@ StoneJack: Why did Canon, Nikon and others flood the marked with cheap DSLR cameras? To reduce their marked share, or to hook buyers in those marked segments too?

Most people don't buy the low end model anyway - the same way that the streets and roads are not flooded with the cheapest car models available. Cameras and cars are status markers.

Nov 27, 2021*permalink

Malling

Stonejack

Why do you keep on making the same post, I already disproved that point one time.

Apple still sell Iphone 6s! And they will first stop selling it when it’s not supported anymore with latest generation OS, that will say 2022 when they release Iphone 14. It’s exactly the same strategy that Sony follows.

In other words they sell their smartphones for 7 years before these are discontinued. The A7ii is now at its 7 year and it probably never will return, but as Cameras generally is still useful 10 years after release It’s actually less of an issue then if you where to buy the IPhone 6s.

Those who buy the newest cameras are not the same people as those buying the old, it should really not be that hard to fathom.

Nov 28, 2021*permalink

(unknown member)

The oldest iPhone available at the official Apple website is the iPhone 11, released 2 years ago.

Nov 29, 2021permalink

Malling

Foskito

It still doesn’t change you can get a sparkling new made Iphone 6s. Just because Apple themselves doesn’t sell it through their own website doesn’t mean they don’t make them and sell them to their distribution network.

It’s a myth that Apple only make those they sell, that unfortunately allot have been convinced about. Resellers still get fresh supplies last time i checked.

You can check the year on it by look at the 4th letter it tells you what year and time of year it’s been produced.

Nov 29, 2021*permalink

(unknown member)

Well, they don't sell them at their physical stores either, so I don't know what kind of distribution network you are referring to. Amazon sells refurbs only and for some reason in the description says “Brand: Azumi”... Whatever that is. But this thread is not about iPhones.

Nov 29, 2021permalink

Malling

Only part of apples sales are sold at their web store and physical stores (most countries actually don’t have physical Apple stores only 25 countries dos) Again it’s a market strategy to only sell the newest models at their own stores, it give the impression that they only sell and make the latest higher priced models and other being discontinued, Apple has a certain brand image they like to keep, but they would not make the kind of money they do and have such huge market share if they only sold newer high end products. I have seen both 6s and 7 with production date of new phones.

But yes let’s get back on track

Nov 29, 2021permalink

Entropy512

@foskito - the distribution network(s) he's referring to are the primary distribution network for the majority of phone sales in the United States (other countries may differ) - carriers.

It's a relatively new phenomenon in the US that you can actually buy a phone from someone other than a carrier and use it on Verizon. (AT&T was a bit easier since they have always used SIM cards, leaving band support as the only challenge - but band support meant that until very recently, having something that actually WORKED on your carrier well could only be obtained through them, even for unlocked devices that used SIM cards.)

Nov 29, 2021permalink

BackToNature1

I highly doubt Apple is making, New from the factory iPhone 6. If anything, all we are seeing being sold by anyone including carriers are reconditioned or refurbished units. So foskito is far more Likely to be right about this than wrong.

Nov 29, 2021permalink

Malling

BTN

Believe in whatever pleases you. I seen the boxes so I know for a fact that older models then IPhone 11 is being produced. I’m not the only one who found serial numbers showing this in new none refurbished products. People found it with IPhone 7 with 2021 production dates earlier this year and check on apples page for them
to be legit product.

Again believe in whatever pleases you, I thought the same until proved otherwise.

Nov 29, 2021*permalink

(unknown member)

Again... What has Apple anything to do with Sony dumping the A7ii?

Nov 29, 2021permalink

Malling

Ask StoneJack it was him starting the comparison

Nov 29, 2021permalink

SmoothOperator

I am also wondering about this. It feels odd to be shopping for a 10+ year old model.

I get the sense that there is no point in producing a kludged version of the same camera/sensor. Like the a5100, which I own, has a frustrating amount of gotchas, like no flash. They went out of their way to make it impossible to use external flashes. Essentially its the same sensor as the other cameras, they just added some firmware kludge.

Dec 30, 2021permalink

StoneJack

Sensors and chips are different. Sony make sensors, true, but for example Playstation CPU and GPU is by AMD and produced by TSMC. Sony sensors are used also by wide variety of producers to make cameras (security cameras, etc, car drive recorders). Sony also makes higher quality sensors for photo and video as well. Fuji and Nikon, also Canon sometime use Sony sensors. However, Nikon recently developed its own superior sensor for Z9, which is produced by another company. Canon also uses mostly their own sensors (no idea who produces them). Successful R&D by Nikon now is viewed as a major cornerstone for Nikon to leapfrog both Canon and Sony in technology race and become a leading mirrorless camera company, which they accomplished with Z9 (they already had best in the world DSLR, D850).

Nov 27, 2021*permalink

RedFox88

They make image sensors, not CPUs

Nov 29, 2021permalink

Entropy512

Sensors yes, ISPs (BIONZ) maybe, not anything else like microcontrollers and PMICs.

I haven't seen a more recent teardown, but as an example the A7R2 had a general purpose Fujitsu Cortex-M3 microcontroller for some functions. While they don't directly make the news like GPUs do because microcontroller sales aren't consumer-facing for the majority of consumers, microcontroller shortages are the reason for most automotive production issues, and many other production issues.

Nov 29, 2021permalink

Intenditore

Yeah, this notorious MB9AF004BGL-G-103-K1ERE1 aka IC5700 which gets killed by pretty much any power accident and might not be bought from anywhere just because even if you've got exactly the same chip you don't have a firmware it must run. So you have to through away a camera because of a single chip fault.
:\

Feb 6, 2022permalink

MILC man

"The PS division continues to out-perform the Xbox from Microsoft by a country mile. It leads the console market in revenue as per figures at the end of October... The company's vertical integration strengths were illustrated, for instance, by the fact that a previous "SpiderMan" movie from the Pictures division lead to a PS4 game which was the best-selling game at that time.

Shipments have been hit by component shortages but it is the same story for its rivals. As per the end-October figures, console gaming and streaming gaming continue to be strong growth sectors. Between 2010 and 2020 gaming revenues rose from 12% of revenue to 30% of revenue. Sony is the world's second largest gaming company behind Chinese behemoth Tencent.

Even more important than the revenues is the huge user base that PS provides for the company. Direct to consumer services connects Sony to 160 million people."
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4471843-10-reasons-to-love-sony

Nov 26, 2021permalink

MILC man

more from the link above:

"Conclusion:
Because of its successful diversification in both products and geographical areas, it is difficult to see specific risks that would significantly harm the entirety of Sony going forward. Of course, like any other company they can be negatively impacted by general worldwide economic or political events.

Rather than paying out large dividends and buying back stock, Sony continues to invest in the future. ...They have invested further in manufacturing of image sensors, of semiconductors and PS gaming. They have also invested through agreements outside the company or buying up of assets outside the company in the fields of Music, Anime and Pictures.

Sony is at the forefront of the Internet of Things and the Digital Entertainment Hub economies. They are well-funded, profitable and well-integrated. They are focused on secular growth areas."

Nov 26, 2021permalink

StoneJack

I'd say old cheap Sony cameras are menace to society :) they should be forbidden forever (just kidding).

Nov 26, 2021permalink

marc petzold

Sony needs to have a camera into many price ranges, like every vendor, so that the users would stick with the brand.

Beauty is into the eye of the beholder, but whileas the original A7 was small & compact, i don't like the latest series like A7 III, IV from it's design. Same goes for the A7S III, and especially for the A7C, with the smallest EVF eyecup and viewfinder magnifaction ever seen. And too little direct access dials & buttons.

Your mileage may vary.

Good Light.

Nov 26, 2021permalink

cosmaracoare

Hard to please everybody. I agree with you, for my liking the slender original cameras were nicer that more recent offerings with bulky grips. And as you pointed out the a7c is not a good substitute given the EVF that is less capable not only compared with A7III-IV but also a6600. Perhaps the next iteration will be able to fit the a6600 type of EVF

Nov 26, 2021permalink

Antonio G

@Mark
You've a point there but when manufacturers announce a new "upgrade" model they usually say it's better and at least is said as solving so issues referred either by users or critics.

Só keeping all old iterations (generations) of a model in the market seems to be quite different than having a line of differently priced models to satisfy a variety of customers at different price levels but incorporating more recent techs.

Old models use to feed used market where sometimes you can get good stuff at more reasonable prices and still able to return you good results.

I do understand some of what you say because myself I still use the first generation of Fuji X100 and Nikon D700 that continue to offer what they promised when I bought them new and specially the DSLR was common in a lot of professional photographers and we could see their images published and admired all-around.

Dec 2, 2021permalink

marc petzold

@Antonio

I use the original X100 in black also, and whileas i don't own the D700, i bought yesterday a new half case for my X100, and a new pair of batteries...and a better lens hood.

Today, i've shot 6 pictures with my V1 & 10-30 PD (AutoISO up to 800), as night photography, and i was surprised about the results. Whileas that slow zoom is no RX100 Series, it's no slouch.

Good Night.

Dec 2, 2021permalink

stuntmonkey

Don't know the manufacturer's margins, but do know that the reseller gets about 20% margin on a new release at the full price, and after manufacturer incentives might make 10-15% when it's on sale.

So at full pop a reseller might have taken in aprox $200 on the a6400 when it was brand new and in-demand, whereas an Alpha 1 would bring in over $1200. But the income per unit goes down over time because people stop willingly pay for the camera at full price.

So this is where decreasing volume is a real killer at the bottom end of the market. There's no room to increase margins, and if you reduce volume, margin doesn't mean anything if the total amount of revenue becomes unsustainable. This is why cameras on average keep getting more expensive.

Nov 26, 2021permalink

Malling

Yeah because Canon doesn’t do it right, you do know that Canon M line is counting in their numbers as well and that some of Canon highest sellers are from that and it’s DSLR range.

Canon and Nikon has flooded the market for decades with cheap outdated stuff. Nikon and Canon should have dumped their P&S and gone smartphones but instead they decided to flood the market with cheap garbage.

Oh By the way Apple still sell Iphone 6s from 2015 so what is Apple exactly doing flooding the market with cheap outdates stuff, Samsung make very cheap new outdated stuff and guess that is what most people have globally so much better right.

Nov 25, 2021*permalink

zxaar

Canon and it's paid shills are worried.

Ah those were the days when sony was abandoning camera business.

Nov 25, 2021permalink

Dave Oddie

@Stonejack I'd say you are 100% wrong. Camera's like the A7II give (or rather gave) people a cheap way into the FF world if that is what they want. Once in that world they might buy a Sony lens or two and may buy some Sony accessories. Take the A7II away and suddenly the cheap way in to FF has gone and such customers might settle for a camera that sells for A7II prices from another manufacturer and if they do, Sony won't be selling them any lenses or accessories.

Not everyone wants to spend upwards of $2/£2k on a camera and for Sony to have kept making the A7II it must have been selling but I think the idea it sold to the detriment of Sony's much more expensive current mainstream models like the A7III & IV is wide of the mark.

Nov 25, 2021*permalink

john Clinch

You can't really compare phones as the networks and software change with time.

I personally think its great that Sony keep on the old models. It means that people can buy into a format cheaply. I bought a rx100 when it was an old model. It's just a great camera. If you don't like them fine don't buy it, buy the new model. It's hard to argue Sony giving us a choice is a bad thing

Nov 25, 2021permalink

Revenant

"Nikon and Canon should have dumped their P&S and gone smartphones but instead they decided to flood the market with cheap garbage."

All the camera makers used to flood the market with cheap P&S compacts, but they mostly stopped making those.

And I'm not sure it would be a good idea for a camera manufacturer with no experience of making mobile phones, to try to enter and compete in the smartphone market, which is arguably even more competitive than the camera market.

Nov 25, 2021permalink

Malling

Revenant

Neither did Apple it was a computer and software company, and several of the first had little to no real expertise in it when smartphones appeared.

Many of the companies that did like Nokia, Motorola, (Sony)-Ericsson, Siemens, Alcatel completely missed the mark. Of those with real experience Samsung where one of the few exceptions.

So experience with phones was not the foundation of success on the smartphone market.

Nov 25, 2021permalink

Revenant

@Malling

Yes, but in its current state, the smartphone market is very mature and competitive. I don't see how companies like Canon or Nikon could break into that market and become anything more than marginal players, especially since computers and software definitely isn't where their strengths lie.

Nov 26, 2021permalink

Malling

But that wasn’t the point, the point being they missed the mark like Nokia and instead at that time floated the market with cheap single lens cameras instead of investing and making smartphones instead.

Nov 26, 2021permalink

Revenant

When it became clear that smartphones would kill the compact camera market, the smartphone market was already quite mature with several established, big players. I really don't think there was a time window when Canon and Nikon could have entered the smartphone market successfully. Not on their own at least, maybe by partnering with an established phone maker.

Nov 26, 2021*permalink

Malling

It was quite obvious with the first iphone that was going to be the case, heck even with the ipod touch 1st gen It was clear for everyone owning one that was the logical next step.

Nov 26, 2021permalink

Aberaeron

They need goods to sell at all price points to outcompete their rivals. People naturally migrate to high specification goods if they can afford it and often when they can't. The lower price goods offer an alternative to rival manufacturer's goods at a particular price point and if Sony can tempt people in to their system with these then even if they only make a marginal profit, they will then be tempted to buy lenses and eventually upgrade with newer Sony bodies as well. Basically they are an important hook to catch fish they would otherwise lose.

Nov 27, 2021permalink

Revenant

@Malling

Let's agree to disagree, but I still think that the only opportunity Canon and Nikon missed regarding smartphones, was to become marginal players in a market that lies outside of their core strengths. There's much more to a phone than its camera module, and Nikon in particular isn't really a general consumer electronics company. I don't think branching out into smartphones would be as easy as you think.

Nov 28, 2021permalink

StoneJack

The best argument is as follows:
Sony is a general consumer electronics company and had a partnership with communication giant Ericcson, so they had their Sony-Ericcson phones, very good by the way (I had Sony Ericsson K750i). So Sony entered mobile phones market and ended up having exactly 0% of the market.

Nov 28, 2021*permalink

onlyfreeman

A7 II was released quite quickly after the A7, and considering it had better ergonomics and IBIS (a big deal at the time) I think it was a decent update considering. The low price kept it popular among people that just wanted a cheap FF MILC to use various lenses.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

onlyfreeman

The original RX100 is still worth buying, and it's cheap for what it is. The other RX100 versions each have something different to offer, so there's more choice for consumers, I don't see anything negative here.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

BackToNature1

I have the original rx100 an use it weekly for snapshots. But no, unless someone is on an severe budget, I wouldn't recommend it for anyone to buy today. I agree with Stuntmonkey, there are Wayyy to many variations of the Rx 100 series. IMO

Nov 24, 2021permalink

onlyfreeman

It's hard to know when Sony discontinues a model, like the RX100 II was discontinued ages ago, but not the original. Also the original is pretty cheap, so I think it stayed popular.

I'm not really sure why it's an issue that Sony keep selling many older models, seems like more choice and options for every budget.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

BackToNature1

I highly doubt, at least here in the USA, that anyone can find NEW, an Sony RX100 I or II. Used, yes. I have debated getting the Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX100 VA Digital Camera to one day replace my aging RX100 I.

I think too many choices of essentially the same camera can be very confusing to consumers. That's one of the reasons I see.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

stuntmonkey

@onlyfreeman The RX100 is listed at $569.99 CDN for my market. Sure it's a great camera, but it's not good enough to make it worthwhile to carry an extra camera on top of a modern smartphone for most people, especially when 99% of people need to get the images back on to the phone in order to post and share.

Having more choice does not make a line more enticing. Having products with more impactful choices in their feature set is what matters in an enthusiasts market vs a generalist market.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

onlyfreeman

It seems now that Sony will find this strategy much harder, due to the supply issues I suspect they'll have to significantly reduce the number of models they keep in production.

Nov 25, 2021permalink

Malling

That is where your wrong, as long as stuff sells all companies would keep on selling or release a new version with the same old stuff inside.

But perhaps you prefer Canon approach of just releasing new stuff with old outdated stuff inside like they do with their M line or what about their entry level DSLR when they actually released these.

This is the two approaches companies follow.

Either they sell their old models as entry stuff or they release “new” cameras with the old stuff inside. Either way you got an outdated electronic.

Nov 25, 2021*permalink

stuntmonkey

@Malling So what makes you think the A7II "sells" in 2021? A 7 year old camera with anchient IBIS and a woefully undersized battery is still burning up the charts? Just because something is listed on a website does not mean it's sold or stocked in any meaningful quantity.

Nov 25, 2021*permalink

Malling

What make you think it doesn’t

If we use one reseller Amazon, it’s listed around 60-70 place on the Mirrorless ranking, it’s also appearing on other lists. So it obviously sell, how much we don’t know as we only get ranking from a few resellers on the global market and mainly in USA and Japan.

Also it’s not unthinkable it sell on the other market where the disposable income is generally lower.

But sometimes these discussions turn into Americentrism, the world is more then just America.

Nov 25, 2021*permalink

john Clinch

Still loving the rx100. Still incredible value. I say well done Sony for giving people the choice

Nov 25, 2021permalink

stuntmonkey

@Malling You are literally arguing in an article about the A7ii being discontinued that it is still selling... If it was a big seller they would have kept it on the priority list during the chip shortage. Sony kept the A7ii alive and sold it at a discount so that they would have something price competitive with the Canon RP, and this is already going back a few years.

Nov 26, 2021permalink

Malling

Sony has been running their FF cameras in 3 generation, the only discontinued camera at this date is in fact the A7R. It goes against their normal practice, also the A7ii is not discontinued it’s just not gonna be made for now.

Obviously Sony can only make things they can get parts to, as semiconductor manufacturers prioritise newer sensors in this situation they might actually not be able to get the chips they need to actually make an older camera.

Nov 26, 2021permalink

yakovlev

Discontinuing the a6400 is going to push a lot more people DOWN to the a6100 rather than up to the a6600. The a6400 is 20% more expensive than the a6100, but the a6600 is 55% more than the a6400. That puts the a6600 in a whole different class from the other two. Probably the a6400 was always the lowest selling of the three, and isn't enticing enough would-be a6100 buyers to justify continued production in the current environment.

That said, completely discontinuing a current-generation camera completely (rather than removing options, like they did on the a6100) is a pretty eyebrow-raising decision on Sony's part.

Nov 26, 2021permalink

PankajDubey

@yakovlev According to the article text -A6100 (? Black model) is also discontinued.

Nov 27, 2021*permalink

DirkPeh

"Probably the a6400 was always the lowest selling of the three, and isn't enticing enough would-be a6100 buyers to justify continued production in the current environment."

I would estimate that the A6400 was the best selling camera of these 3. It offers nearly the same as the A6600 for much less money. It only lacks IBIS and the bigger battery of the A6600. One could easily invest the saved money into an OSS lense and some batteries. The A6100 is just a bit less expensive but is made of plastic and has software limitations.
Isn't their new vlog cam very similar to the A6100 and even less expensive?

Nov 29, 2021permalink

larkhon

Well with Covid cases growing exponentially one is more likely to buy a camera they don't need than book a trip they're not sure they're going to make.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

Mr Bolton

Sadly, that's true.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

cosmaracoare

Sadly we are still in limbo despite high vaccination rates and limitations in social life - meetings, concerts restaurants, nevermind trips etc

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Mr Bolton

Stateside, 64 percent isn't that high-when the vaccine is freely available in literally every street corner drug store, and has been for months-yet 40 million eligible Americans continue to get sick, clog our hospitals, and die needlessly because <insert preferred conspiracy wackadoodle theory here> and the rest of us still have to mask up. We could be almost entirely through this now, instead of no end in sight.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

wats0n

My brother had two shots Phizer and the booster and still
ended up in the hospital. The vaccines do work, but not all the time. Lots of rising cases are with the vaccinated, he ended up getting multiple people very sick as well so vaccinated folks also easily spread COVID. I am not anti vaccine. My family is fully vaccinated, but it’s folkish to think the vaccines are working when the most vaccinated countries and even towns and cities in the U.S. are having huge outbreaks.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

cosmaracoare

At my workplace 15 (out of about 150) vaccinated colleagues got Covid this year. None got very sick but none are very old or with comorbidities. Most had mild symptoms that triggered testing and some had pretty bad fever and shortness of breath. With or without vaccines people get sick and life is not normal. Vaccinating more people would help but I doubt we would go back to 2019 lifestyle

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

Bender79ita

[Products subject to suspension of order acceptance]
Digital single-lens camera: α7 II series / α6400 series / α6100 body (black)
They are stopping the a6100 too. But honestly, it's been super hard to find one in Italy since day 1. Almost nobody has it. It seems like it never existed...

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

sirhawkeye64

Yeah I saw that after I made the post but couldn't edit.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Mr Bolton

The 6400 seems like a quite popular model. Maybe they discontinued it because it uses some chips they also needed for the A7C or other newer, full frame models? In other words, they had to decide and they decided that their APS-C line got the short end of the stick.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Entropy512

"Unless of course it's one specific chip they need for certain models that is on backorder..." - that's likely the case

Nov 29, 2021permalink

onlyfreeman

Yes, they are.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

Aberaeron

I have doubts about this also.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

onlyfreeman

No need to doubt, does anyone believe Sony are still selling cameras from 2012/2013 (RX100, a7) without still producing them? I suppose they accidentally made millions too many?

They write the date of manufacture on the box, so anyone can see that older models are definitely still being produced. They do discontinue some models, but they don't seem to announce this anywhere as far as I know, but it's pretty obvious as the retailers don't sell those models anymore, but still sell all the others.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

Aberaeron

Well, I bought a brand new camera the other day that was made in 2018.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

onlyfreeman

Which one was that?i bought an old camera that was made in 2019 lol, Sony a7 II.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

wats0n

Yes. I think Sony doesn’t actually sell that well. I think lots of overstock sits in stores across the US and the world. I think they count a sale as any item sitting in a retail warehouse.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Aberaeron

Not a Sony, although I did buy a Sony lens at about the same time, mid '21, also made in 2018.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Malling

I think you need to look at more boxes then.

I’ve seen plenty of old models with new production dates.

Most responsible resellers and warehouses will clean out stocks every year, we have a yearly events for that you know like Black Friday. You have to be pretty horrible at running a business if you burn in with 3-5 year old cameras and really it’s says more about you as a business man/woman then it says about Sony.

Nov 25, 2021permalink

Aberaeron

? I am neither a wholesaler nor a retailer of cameras. I do have some little retailing experience though and know exactly how the system works and its variations. Also of batch manufacture of products and parts of products and sales management having spent a decade with a major international corporation and manufacturer of industrial machinery and after sales/service management.

Nov 25, 2021*permalink

sirhawkeye64

Yes but then why would they continue production of the a6100 and others. I think they just chose units that were probably moving slowly. And with the A7 IV just released, there likely wasn't many A7 II sales at least. So the A7 II I can see, but why the A6400?

Nov 24, 2021permalink

cosmaracoare

Maybe so maybe no. Fuji is reportedly planning to install AI photo processing similar to phones. Sony could do that and APSc could give MF results 😂😂😂. Not to mention that if they go this route probably they will have better internet / cell phone integration

Nov 24, 2021permalink

john Clinch

If you read they have stopped the A6100

Nov 25, 2021permalink

sirhawkeye64

Either way, with the Christmas season basically upon us now, hopefully (for Sony) this won't last long, as others will start coming out with Christmas deals (if they haven't already) and that may mean that someone getting into photography may pick up (for example) a Nikon Z5 since an a6100 or a6400 wasn't available. Unless Sony has a backstock of A6400 and A6100's they are holding onto until we get closer to the Christmas season....

Nov 26, 2021permalink

BackToNature1

No, I think most folks are just trying to understand what is actually going on. They could care less which model brings in more profit for Sony an or any other brand for that matter. They mostly, IMO, want to see what the direction is for all these camera brands. Seeing how many have already stated their focus moving forward on higher profit margins type units.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

Malling

You don’t know if it’s Sony second most selling, you have no overall data to support such claims. Sony do not release shipping numbers of lines, we have very little data from a few resellers, but we cannot conclude anything from it besides that in this week/month/year that reseller sold most units of specific camera . One of the biggest market the European (the only one besides the Chinese market where camera sales isn’t plumping to the ground) offer no real information as it’s not transparent. European resellers are generally small and send little data or even keep track of it but without reliable data from Europe the data is fundamentally useless.

As BTN mentioned we are mostly interested in seeing where the market is going, the profit margins or what ever sell most is mostly of interest in that context.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

RubberDials

@Malling

"You don’t know if it’s Sony second most selling, you have no overall data to support such claims."

Yeah, apart from the link I provided where it was Sony's second best selling camera, I've got nothing. 🙄

Nov 24, 2021permalink

larkhon

As far as I know other manufacturers like Fuji and Olympus/OM Systems also have issues right now.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Malling

RD

That isn’t a proof, that is data from very few resellers in a few markets. You cannot conclude anything from that, Sony has a huge stronghold in europe and that has been the case since the 90’s. Without any data from one of the biggest and most important market any data is fundamentally useless, there is close to no reliable data from Europe simply because it’s filled with small independent resellers.

We got somewhat reliable data from Japan and a few resellers in USA, but without Europe or shipping info from Sony we actually cannot conclude anything, we can only conclude how it look at those resellers that do mention, but Sony have tens of thousands of resellers globally.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

ArthurS

I think it's kind of presumptuous for anyone to speculate as to why certain models are being suspended without any knowledge of the particular chips or other parts that are in short enough supply to make the suspensions. That being said, it's kind of surprising and ironic that Sony is making this kind of announcement when they themselves are a chip manufacturer But that's not to say that every chip in any Sony product is made by Sony. There are probably some components for which it's cheaper and/or more efficient to buy them from another supplier. It could very well be that Sony uses some third party chip or other component in that shotgun mic which they can't get enough of right now, so they may not be "making up excuses" as to why they're suspending its production. As I've just said, speculation as to what may be going on and why certain things are happening is just making guesses without much in the way of information to back them up.

Nov 25, 2021permalink

Djehuty

At least they are telling you why and not delay your pre-orders for a few months. Supply chains are intertwined, no company makes everything on its own by itself, especially not major brands.

Nov 25, 2021*permalink

Myles Baker

I don't think its presumptuous to speculate on why Sony has stopped producing certain models. I think its pretty obvious. We know from multiple manufacturers across a broad range of industries that chip shortages are causing delays in production. Sony has said in its release that this is the reason for stopping producing these models. It makes perfect sense that they would prioritize new or more profitable lines when it comes to allocating resources. The A7ii is an old model, 7 years and 2 generations behind the latest release. The a6... line up is crowded as it is, dropping one of the models that is either not selling well, or has a lower profit margin than another product that uses the same chip makes perfect sense.

Nov 25, 2021permalink

RubberDials

Brent, the article tells you - part shortages.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

sirhawkeye64

.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

Richmondthefish

..

Nov 24, 2021permalink

john Clinch

Like reading the second paragraph is so hard

"In its notice, which doubles as an apology, Sony says it stopped the acceptance of orders from distributors and customers on November 19, 2021 for the following equipment: a7 II series cameras, a6400 series cameras, a6100 cameras (black models only, apparently)"

Nov 25, 2021permalink

BrentSchumer

John, like reading my final line is terribly hard? ;)

Nov 26, 2021permalink

BackToNature1

I know this is certainly why so many don't think there is any insight to Sony's business models comparing the FF lineup to what their (APS-C) brings in by comparisons. An historically that has certainly been the case.

However that hardly does not mean outside of the Sony Board, online sites aren't using available data to bring some type of light to what those margins might be. Specifically to be clearer, NOT profit margins per camera, but general speaking, profit margins between the two segments.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

Richmondthefish

the last time i experienced a chip shortage i lost money in vegas

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Mr Bolton

The last time I experienced a chip shortage, my Commodore 64 had no sound..

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Aberaeron

Last time I experienced a chip shortage, the price of fish and chips went through the roof.

Or was it the time my cookies turned out dry and bland without the chocolate?

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

MaxDMachy

Obviously your comment is hugely successful! Congrats.

In my view the thing is partly orchestrated by Sony to get rid of so far unsaleble stock of a6300 and A6500, sell the remaining "discontinued" models at a higher price and streamline production and stock keeping while keeping prices high. Brilliant idea!

Nov 25, 2021permalink

SomeguyPNW

<crickets>

Nov 26, 2021permalink

Puppy2007

No, all models are available in black color.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

MaxDMachy

I see the A6000 everywhere in consumer shops. Sold at high price points! The A6600 should also earn Sony solid margins

Nov 25, 2021permalink

john Clinch

A6000?

Nov 25, 2021permalink

4Photos

You know, you can put your camera to manual focus and manual exposure mode and take photos at as slow a pace as you desire?!

Yeah, what happened to the chips - I wonder too :)_

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

Cian3307

Hurray! The death of digital! Time to dust off my old EOS 100 and my even older OM10 (I'm joking, a lot of folks here don't understand that, no matter how many exclamation marks and winking emojis are posted)😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉😉

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Sylverphoto

@Cian3307
I hope I will be understood that I am joking!!! I don't care what medium other people shoot.

...and hey @4Photos... I am at the forefront of the anlogue resurection. I am shooting all manual (metering with handheld meter, focusing manually, creating images in film), leaving all my digital cameras in the dust.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

4Photos

@Sylver. Good for you. Not long ago, I gave my Hasselblad a nice workout. If ever I were to return to analog, it would be 6x6 or 6x9 or larger format. Everything else the quality hit is just too big. And for my 5x7 Plaubel, it became too hard to even get film.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Sylverphoto

4Photos
Thank you :-)
I don't despise digital photography at all. Unfortunatly, I prefer the all analogue and manual way with the digital bit added on much more. I gives me more joy even though Kodak has increased prices for 2022. Yes, it is more tideous, if you really do most parts like development, scanning, maybe editing

My prefered setup is a 35mm Nikon analogue camera with lenses between 24mm and 85mm. I have good lens selection availabe for my work.

And just this past summer I bought a mint (looks like very new, just left the factory type thingy) camera. Actually for collectors but I needed a new one to work with. I maybe buy another one fully manual one.

I am thinking of buying a Hasselblad too but I am not sure if I should get into this. Maybe as an investement??? But then I would buy a watch as investment too?

Nov 24, 2021permalink

4Photos

If you are into film, please give Hasselblad a serious look. It was the camera that gave me the most joy. If you buy used, you can sell again without taking a hit, although it becomes harder to find mint bodies or lenses these days. Maybe on KEH?

Anyway, having just 12 exposures on a roll of film makes you contemplate even more. And you can easily develop the b/w in your bathroom. For scanning, I used an Epson flatbed, which gives good results (unlike 35mm film, where you really need a dedicated film scanner).

Nov 26, 2021permalink

Ergellegre

Hah, surprising isn't it. Maybe 5Dii is still being produced. Maybe we'll see headlines soon 'Box Brownie to cease production due to supply issue with nitro glycerine'.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

chse

Sony know and act like they are in hi tech industry: last model is lower tier model.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

C-M-S

”but I guess Sony simply sell more A6000 and A5100 then a6100 and a64000 even though these are antiquated dinosaurs”

Not according to top selling lists. A6400 is and has been in the top segment for ages, overtaking the old A6000. It’s 4th (black version, was 2nd last month) and 6th (silver) at BCN and currently 6th at Amazon. So it’s still a very popular camera.

I’m sure Sony will want to continue with the A6400 as soon as they have the resources because they will surly lose money pausing one of the best selling cameras, which by now they most likely have rather good margins on. The 6600 is not doing nearly as good as the A6400.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

Malling

Amazon isn’t really a proof of anything it’s just numbers from one reseller. Sony is looking at total shipments numbers something we have no access too. The only thing we do know is that the ZV-E10 was a massive seller that where reported earlier.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

BackToNature1

I have seen at least one report stating in detail how Sony makes far more in profits from their far lower selling a7, a9, and a1 series as opposed the far higher selling lower profit aps-c series. So for examples, if 80% of your sales are aps-c but 80% of your profits are a7, a9, and a1 series, then I think some folks are looking at this all wrong.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Malling

BTN we have no profit margin data, so it speculation at the very best.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

BackToNature1

Like I stated, I have seen at least one report this year detailing percent margins for Sony comparing models. I have not been able to find it again. I will keep looking. So yes, that's why I stated for EXAMPLE.

However, I think there is little doubt about how the Profit margins are better in the higher end products of all brand hence their focus on selling them. Pretty much all Brands have stated that. So no, That's not speculation at the very best. It's just plain commonsense.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

Malling

I doubt the percentage gross profit margin is bigger, consumer electronics typically run with very high gross profit margin as their shelf lives are short.

But that is not to say that the total revenue is not higher on high end products or count for a higher total percentage of the total profit.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

C-M-S

BCN is consist of multiple resellers. And the A6400 is ahead of the successful ZV-E10 on both amazon and B&H and just a few positions behind it on BCN (but again there are two different models of the A6400 in top 10)

So there really is no question IMHO that it is a very popular camera.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

RubberDials

@BackToNature1

"I have seen at least one report this year detailing percent margins for Sony comparing models."

Then you must be on the board of Sony because no such document exists in the public domain.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

BackToNature1

They have been selling the same basic (APS-C) camera for how long now. How many different iterations. Plus how many (APS-C)lens are they selling of their own brand as compared to their FF lens an or profits from either? Another analogy. Selling lens an or profits between formats. For example, selling software to overcome loss elsewhere.

October 28, 2021
3:01 AM CDT
Last Updated a month ago
Sony ekes out 1% Q2 profit rise as PS5 costs squeeze margins

"Sony said it has sold a cumulative 13.4 million units PS5 units since launch last November. That contributed to a 27% year-on-year jump in sales at its gaming unit, though profit was less robust as the conglomerate sold hardware below cost.

Manufacturers frequently sell new consoles at a loss as they build an install base for software sales, with component shortages providing extra pain for makers of the latest generation of devices."

https://www.reuters.com/business/sony-reports-1-rise-q2-profit-beats-estimates-2021-10-28/

Nov 24, 2021permalink

BackToNature1

The only thing is how factual the document was because I certainly read an article online which detailed the amount of percent profits comparison between Sony's lower cost units an their higher cost ones. But since I can't find it, I can't prove that did. So folks just have my word which of course most could care less about. But if I find it again I will certainly post it an then we can discuss how factually it actually is.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

Malling

C-M-S

But that might be, but it still only some reseller on one market. We have no useful numbers from Sony from europe or Asia. So any ranking is fundamental useless as it neither can tell how many Sony ship or the profit margin of each camera.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

larkhon

ZV-E10, really? In Europe it's been discounted almost from day one, I was expecting it wouldn't sell at all...

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Malling

Sony hasn’t even removed the A7 from their page, as is the norm from Sony to do after they reached beyond 3 gen.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

BackToNature1

It seems that apparently all the brands are focusing on their higher end units as opposed those that sell more but cost far less. That's been reported for quite an while now. Also, exactly what major hardware upgrade has the Sony aps-c series seen since the a6000? DPR reported the biggest change being that of the AF. Include the bigger battery for the more expensive a6600. Better JPEGS. So I really don't get this shocker thing concerning the a6400.

So even if Companies are apparently selling more cheap cameras by comparison they are also raking in far more profit via the far lower selling, a7iii on upward to the a1 cameras series. I would say that's mostly true across all brands. Also, has the cost reductions of scale brought entry level FF sensor an aps-c ones to now essential par levels?

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Adam-T

I don’t think they’ll need to stop production of the A6600, they’ve probably got stockpiles of the things unsold , it’s comically overpriced, in the UK at least.. Sony do need to stop Making relics (except the A6000 which is still a top selling cam maybe - or drop the 6100 to that price level), that includes all the old RX models too -

IMO. keep the RX100 Mk5v and mk7 - RX10 mk2 and mk4 . A6000 (or better priced 6100), 6400, 6600 .. A7-iii, Iv - A7R-3/4 , A9 mk2, A7S mk3 and A1

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

Bender79ita

Honestly I don't think they are making much of anything anymore except the recent FF cameras. We have seen a halt in APS-C development from all manufacturers (it's been 3 years almost except part bins like ZV & Zfc). It just seems weird to have such a hole in the midrange.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

The Mad Kiwi

They are not “ killing their best budget options to push the more profitable ones.”

They have sold all the stock of these models and won’t be producing any more because newer models are in the pipeline close to release.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Bender79ita

New aps-c models or new, more profitable, full frame models? ;)
As of now their official aps-c lineup has a 1000 dollar hole, I wouldn't consider the ZV on the same segment as the Z50, M6II, or X-S10.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Jon555

It would be nice if they reduced the 6600 price to help even things up... very unlikely though...

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Leicalika

because they were artists, not appliance operators

Nov 24, 2021permalink

LJ - Eljot

Also they seldomly photographed birds in flight.
Image quality has not improved much in the last 8 years, but EVF and AF have.
I use my E-M5 still. Ok, I have it to my parents, so I do not have to carry a camera with me. But the image qualitly is still good.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

TheOwl360

@Marc petzold

What you’re seeing is consumer psychology, with many responses coming from those who live in consumer societies, where they’ve been programmed to place higher value on what cost relatively more, as opposed to its practicality.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

larkhon

Would you blame the consumer for that? Or the manufacturer that released one too many generation of camera, or tries everything to make us believe the latest camera is a day and night upgrade compared to the previous one? How often were cameras released when the 'old masters of photography' did they best work?

Since computers entered our lives nearly every domain where technology is involved is seeing the same strategy: short lifecycle and the motto "it's the best iPhone (or replace with other names) ever made".

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Malling

Not after the ZV-E10 that sold like hot cakes.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Francis85

As it seems now that 'first' won't go to Sony, but will be Fujifilm that will be first served in the upcoming X-H2's.

Another fact is that Sony seems to be very uninterested in APS-C these days. Partly due to the fact that FF has gone a lot cheaper to produce closing the gap between production costs between these two sensor types. While at the same time profit margins on FF are much higher.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

Djehuty

Super 35 stacked sensor cine cams at half the A1's price pls.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Malling

Keep on dreaming

Cine Cams are generally much more expensive then A1 and Sony doesn’t seem all that interested in APS-C beyond squeezing the lemon.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

BrentSchumer

Sony has always done the bare minimum with APSC models. The A6600 has more or less the A6000's body design, the A6300's sensor, the NEX-5's card slot, etc.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Francis85

For Sony users yes, but Sonly lived off people leaving other brands. That spill has more or less completely stopped. As a matter of fact I see Sony some users starting to jump back Canon and Nikon again. So indeed Sony needs that 'best seller' as they have passed their hay days.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

Matt_007

It's currently being beaten to the bestseller spot by the Z9.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Matt_007

Duplicate

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

Francis85

Matt_007 those lists don't say much.
Next to that would also be a bad thing if a 6000 dollar camera would outsell a 2400 dollar camera. And FYI I am not talking or comparing to Nikon specifically. There are more brands and model of cameras that profit from having better cameras these days.

It is also kind of funny you are comparing a camera meant to be used for sports and action photography that is going to be mostly used by professionals to a camera that is meant to be used by amateur photographers and photo enthousiasts.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

nilsjohan

Z9 is not even on top Amazon top 100 ML camera sales, while other expensive cameras such as A1 and A9ii are. Z9 is unfortunately low volume sales.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

Francis85

Looks like you fear Nikon most, while most likely it is the one company that you need to fear the least. What is it with the Sony guys being so insecure over their brand. Canon and Nikon both succesfully have undone themselves from the Sony parasite that lived off them. That now seems to give insecurity to some Sony users whom are shooting into stress mode and having to shield with Nikon. We all know their situation.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

nilsjohan

just replying factually to a false statement made by Matt_007 under a Sony article

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

Malling

Francis the amount of people going back isn’t very big you can’t see it in the statistics and it’s probably more then upheld by people going in the other direction.

Reality is that the vast majority who invested in one of these aren’t likely to go anywhere as the gain simply isn’t there.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Malling

No one fear Nikon

Nov 24, 2021permalink

RubberDials

Francis85

"What is it with the Sony guys being so insecure over their brand."

Lol, coming from a guy who just called Sony a 'parasite'.

"Canon and Nikon both successfully have undone themselves from the Sony parasite that lived off them."

What does this mean? If you're referring to sensors, the answer is no, they haven't undone themselves. You think Nikon independently came up with the idea of making a ≈50mp mirrorless camera with a stacked sensor that shoots 20fp and Canon didn't?

The D6 only came out last year. The Z9 looks like some collaboration with Sony to me, because an A9III is coming and sports cameras are traditionally ≈20mp.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

larkhon

Maybe more to the topic, why would you think the A7 IV will be a bestseller? I think the A7 III was successful because it was a big upgrade from the previous one. I had the A7 II and wasn't seeing much of an upgrade to the Fuji gear I had, so the update was needed. Considering the mark III still sells at 90% of its release price (in Europe, street price without rebates) and is not behind competition, people have less reasons to buy a newer model that is almost 1000€ more expensive at the moment.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

larkhon

@Rubberdials: have you forgotten how Sony was emphasizing the AF speed of adapted Canon EF lenses on their A7 II and A7r II? they relied on Canon users making a soft switch, while building their own lineup.

Francis85 might have a bias towards Nikon, but Sony did start as a parasite with their FF products. Shame on Canon for letting them have this headstart, of course.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

DeathArrow

>If sony stops making money with any device they will simply kill it or might even abandon the whole category if they see fit

As will do any other manufacturer.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

Do you think Pentax is making lots of money with their K1 camera sales?

Nov 24, 2021permalink

MILC man

how much money is olympus making with m4/3? or samsung with aps-c?

how much money is nikon making with the v1-series? or their nikon rifle scopes? how about the nikon coolscan scanners? or nikon keymission cameras?

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

Francis85

Is Pentax still a viable brand...
They exist to want to be existing. Because Ricoh doesn't yet want to kill off the brandname as it represents a certain value. Like Olympus in the end it is up to the shareholders that decide how long they want to support a dying brand.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

EXkurogane

The fact that Sony suspends A6400 is the most surprising thing to me. It's one of their best sellers.

Yet, at the same time, seeing canon's attitude towards the EFM mount, i suppose that it's very clear now that sales volume don't mean anything if margins are thin.

The biggest problem of APSC cameras today isn't just cheap full frames. It's used full frames.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Djehuty

A6000 is also one of their best sellers, so was Canon's M50, didn't stop Canon from giving their best seller the shaft.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

gameshoes3003

Companies drop many product lines over time. But I think Sony's Imaging Division is here to stay for a long time now. Plus, if we want to talk about particular Sony products that don't make money, we've got to talk about their Xperia smartphones. Other than Samsung, making a smartphone hemorrhages money from the parent company.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

marc petzold

Pentax is a highly accepted, valueable brand inside Japan. Japan is also the only market, whereas Pentax was releasing for instance last year very limited editions of the Pentax K-1 Mk. II into design.

Pentax comes from Pentamirror and Contax, hence therefore Pentax, and for this, Pentax (or the current owner Ricoh) is relying into OVF tech, which is a good thing. Once Asahi bought that name Pentax from Carl Zeiss (West Germany)

http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Pentax

Good Light.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

ffking

Side issue, I know, but it should be remembered that Pentax were big in compact film cameras (no Pentaprism) back in the day, {pioneering compact zooms and weather sealing) so it's not like they were too stuck on their name when still Asahi or Pentax corporation - but I think it is true that Ricoh sees Pentax as its SLR brand now, and formerly Pentax compacts have been rebranded as Ricoh

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Malling

So would Canon and Nikon or any other manufacturer no one is going to keep on producing a product that doesn’t sell.

Both Nikon and Canon has killed uncountable amount of cameras and lenses the last many decades, right now they are discontinuing their DSLR. Canon also tend to discontinue the previous version when they release a new… Unlike you know Sony who first do it when it stop selling.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

burnley_ben

Actually, Walkman is still for sale:

https://electronics.sony.com/audio/c/walkman-digital-recorders

Nov 24, 2021permalink

RubberDials

@Foskito

"The chip shortage argument is BS, they are killing old unprofitable cameras and giving a lousy argument everybody will buy period."

The only BS is your statement. The A6400 and A6100 are two of Sony's biggest selling cameras. The A6400 is probably Sony's biggest selling camera worldwide. They aren't killing anything. For them to cease production of their best selling bodies shows that they probably have enough inventory to get by and that they need chips for the A7IV, which is already delayed and would have probably been launched in the spring if it wasn't for Covid and parts shortages.

"If sony stops making money with any device they will simply kill it or might even abandon the whole category if they see fit, as they have done in the past, walkman, Vaio, remember?"

The Vaio was Sony's copy of the IBM PC. It contained no original Sony IP and isn't remotely comparable to Sony's cameras. The Walkman was obsoleted by the death of the cassette. Stop trolling.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Igor Sotelo

I think Ricoh is doubling down on DSLR’s. Canon is killing their EF system, Sony has killed off the A-system and it’s unclear if Nikon will continue with the F-system.

That would leave DSLR’s to Pentax, in the same way only rangefinder cameras available are Leica.

For entry level, so far Sony’s strategy was to drop the price of their older cameras. Canon and Nikon didn’t have old mirrorless cameras so they introduced the RP and Z5, that are much better than the A7 II.

Time will tell if Sony will opt to drop the price of their A7 III / A7C / A7R IIIA cameras or introduce an new entry level camera.

Nov 25, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

Yeah whatever you say rubber... now blame the cassette and IBM for Sony's failures lol.

Nov 25, 2021permalink

alolog

@Foskito If really want one ,the Vaio is still being sold
https://us.vaio.com/

Nov 28, 2021permalink

Malling

Igor

The price of the A7iii where reduced with the Sony announcement of the A7iv. I suspect it will drop even further. However it will probably not in any near future be down at Nikon or for that matter Canon level as it’s clearly a much better Camera then both.

The A7ii is also noticeable cheaper then the Nikon and typically also cheaper then Canon RP.

So it’s not really a 1:1 comparison in this regard it’s more what your willing to spend.

Nov 28, 2021*permalink

RubberDials

Foskito

Whatever I say? You dispute that the Vaio is a PC clone?

You think it's an original Sony computer? That they designed the architecture and operating system for it? It's literally a Sony version of someone else's product. There is no comparison with anything out of their photo division.

Nov 28, 2021permalink

Francis85

Igor you are performing a one man comic act.
Pentax will not gain anything from Canon and Nikon leaving the DSLR market. Only a handful might swap to Pentax. But the vast majority will accept its defeat and will change mirrorless regardless.

The DSLR is dead and the fewer are being made and sold the more expensive will be the manufacturing costs and components like pentaprism and mirror mechanisms. Next step in the evolution will be getting rid of the shutter.

Enjoy your Pentax while it lasts.

Nov 29, 2021*permalink

Francis85

When I worked for Sony in the early 2000th we were given the VAIO's to work with. Terrible laptops they were. No other windows based computer had so many blue screens of death than these VAIO's had.

And Rubber Dials - VAIO is no longer a Sony product, but one of..... JIP. The same investment company that is trying to save Olympus from its destined death. The VAIO now is being made in China and marketed to Japanese market only.

Nov 29, 2021*permalink

Igor Sotelo

Francis, please explain why is so bad to look with your own eyes trough the lens, with natural colours, no delay and the highest resolution? If rangefinders made it to this days with Leica, why there shouldn’t be a brand, like Pentax, making DSLR’s?

Once I picked a Fuji X100V, set it to EVF and then to OVF. There’s nothing to think there.

Nov 29, 2021*permalink

Francis85

Igor there is nothing bad about it. If you want to be nostalgic about using an OVF then that's entirely fine with me.

Times are changing and so is technology improving. Modern hi-res EVF's with high refresh rates look and feel as optical viewfinders having the advantage of seeing the final image before pressing the shutter button. Have never felt nostalgic about an OVF and never missed it either after switching from a DSLR to mirrorless. My latest cameras all have 'no blackout' viewfinders as well. A lot has changed in this field over the last few years.

Nov 29, 2021*permalink

Igor Sotelo

It’s like saying you like wearing virtual reality googles all time rather than seeing things with your own eyes, because you instantly get GPS, wind speed and temperature data.

I mean, you can still see the EVF data if needed on a DSLR by simply checking live view, and in near future maybe there will be a hybrid OVF/EVF like the X100 series has.

Dec 1, 2021permalink

Francis85

Good for you - But what you can't do is retrieve a set of images before, during and after the moment happened. Even though you pressed the shutter milliseconds after the occurrence. This is what some modern mirrorless these days are capable of. Due to start caching the images already while half pressing the shutter button. You will have missed the actual moment with your DSLR.

Not to say the terrible and loud noise the mirror makes. Making you as a photographer the center of attention, while we mirrorless photographers go more stealth and are a savage during those moments that silence is asked for.

Dec 1, 2021*permalink

Malling

The A7Rii is not discontinued, I don’t know where you got that from.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Igor Sotelo

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1445357-REG/sony_alpha_a7r_ii_mirrorless.html

Item discontinued . . .

https://petapixel.com/2021/08/31/sony-alpha-7r-ii-appears-finally-discontinued-after-6-years/

Appears Finally Discontinued After 6 Years . . .

Nov 25, 2021permalink

SomeguyPNW

Does this mean I can sell my A7Rii as a collector's item?

Nov 26, 2021permalink

MaxDMachy

2nd episode of original post: And I see the A6000 everywhere, displayed prominently in consumer oriented shops! Good for Sony as the prices of a model having amortized the development costs and the modest prices of plastic and old chips guarantees huge margins. They might earn more on a single body of an A6000 than on an aggressively priced A7Riv! Sweet! For all those people not into portraits of jumpy models, sports or wildlife it's also still performing fine. If only prices (kit around 550€=USD) where not so high for really old technology.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

MaxDMachy

3rd episode of original post, sorry, 1000 characters limit

I myself - most happy with the Nikon Z5, Techart smart adapter & original Sony lenses like the old Zony f1.4 35mm, now reasonably priced for a change! Hope updates will bring third party compatibility to Techart! Or is it already there? No desire to test the mentioned Samyang autofocus or my Tamron E-mount on the Z5. What I know for SURE is that the old Tamron 90mm macro F-mount works just fine on the Z50. As I've used those a lot. That should not be the case according to Tamron's official announcement. Mhhh

Nov 24, 2021permalink

PredatorsPrey

Why would you ever consider a new product when you are on a budget? I remember seeking second hand lists quite hard. If you can afford the more expensive bodies new, you're not on a budget. Same goes for the lower priced models, you could get a more capable second hand older model of the upper categrories for the same.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Djehuty

Nothing really wrong with using the A6000 tbh.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

MaxDMachy

@ English is not my first language. As a trained accountant I am still pretty sure that being on a budget can mean, you buy a Fuji medium format body with 10 lenses. A proper state of the art = new medium format like the Phase one or a 150mp Hasselblad with glass is above.
Second hand, I've looked up used Nikon Z6 mk1 on ebay auctions. Love the better materials and the top plate display. Went for 150 bucks above my new Z5!?!

Nov 24, 2021permalink

PredatorsPrey

@MaxDMachy
I'm also not a native speaker ;-)
You're right that also can mean being on a budget but I was more in the context of the mentioned students. There are also some with a budget we can dream of but that might not be the typical one.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

MaxDMachy

@ PredatorsPrey yeah, I used to live in places like Munich where the son of Gaddhafi was most certainly not the only student who showed off his big SUVs, designer clothes etc. I guess we are both splitting hair in a way. As long as we enjoy the argument and are aware what's going on I consider that as fun!
Emerging countries, some rich kids might enroll anywhere and embarras fellow students and professors alike by getting any new top model camera with an amazing collection of glass as soon as it's available anywhere. The world is a varied place
On the budget side discontinuing the a6100 and pushing people either to the a6600 or the a 6000 is even more cruel to people in need of a reactive camera body. And my bet is selling tons of the aged a6000 on inflated prices is most profitable for Sony!

Nov 25, 2021*permalink

MikeRan

TRU would like to have a few words with you…

Nov 24, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

That's correct. They have done it in the past, is the sony’s operandum. And who is TRU?

Nov 24, 2021permalink

MikeRan

Who is TRU. Haha.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Archer66

And Canon will stop making lenses and focus on calculators.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Djehuty

And Nikon will keep making sneak previews.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Francis85

Archer/Djehuty - There is a big difference in being a traditional camera manufacturer and being a consumer electronics company jumping onto volume sales products and leaving a segment as soon as the hype has past or as soon as the profit plunges to next to nothing.

Canon, Fujifilm and Nikon have very different roots than Sony.
Sony offers great technology products, but they are not a brand that is known to give long term support on products with low volume sales. It is a very different company in its core.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

Djehuty

Canon mostly makes printers and already stopping production of EF lenses so there goes that theory.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

ffking

Sony does have a history of innovating, cashing in on their innovation (as they should) and then dropping back from the leading edge when the market gets competitive- but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will stop being a significant player.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

SimonBlago

@ZenoOne01 - Probably your Nikon will go down first.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Malling

Hardly, Sony have invested way to much money into it the last few years for them to exit the next decade or two. I don’t think it’s likely any of the major 3 is going away within the next 10-20 years.

Sony still make walkman.

Also Sony never where a big computer manufacturer to begin with, they got into it in 1996 (although they did make a few for the Japanese market in the 80’s) and then sold it off 20 years later to focus on mobile platforms.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

RubberDials

@Francis 85

Sony is more a camera company than anyone else except Canon. They make lenses, bodies and sensors. And most of their products are class leading, so if you think they're some how not the 'real thing' what does that say about Nikon, Canon who are racing to copy them?

Nov 24, 2021permalink

(unknown member)

Sony cares more about Playstations than cameras. End of story.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

ZeroOne01

@ RubberDials

Let’s see when Sony will copy Nikon’s m-shutterless or Canon’s Eye-AF.
They’ll need 1-2 years at least to catch-up.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

MikeRan

Ha…. The world revolves around Nikon.
You think Nikon was first with the technology that permitted them to remove the mechanical shutter?

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

Francis85

Rubberdials - Sony as a company has given birth to some iconic products in its heydays, which include High end Audio, Walkman, Discman, Trinitron TV, CD/DVD, PlayStation and mirrorless cameras

In spite of this legacy of strong brand building, the company in every of these segments has also slipped from its leadership positions. It has never ever been able to maintain as marketleader in any segment for a longer period of time

It is admirable that Sony oftentimes is the first mover in a category. But Sony also everytime looses the advantage of being the pioneer. They have been leapfrogged in smartphones, television, and have turned out to be unsuccessful in streaming services. In the gaming industry they struggle with Microsoft.

Sony is a strong example of a brand that survives on “residual brand equity” rather than actively managing and building it. The core of what Sony lacks is visionary leadership. Sony up to now always bailed out when profitability of a segment is under pressure

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

RubberDials

@ZeroOne01

The electronic flash sync speed of the Z9 and A1 is the same - 1/200. So Sony could have left the mechanical shutter out of the A1 if they wanted. Instead they built a NEW specially damped mech shutter with the world's fastest flash sync - 1/400FF and 1/500 aps-c. That's innovation.

I'll leave it up to you to explain why Nikon didn't make a new mech shutter to rival that. It's a 4 letter word and it begins and ends with COST.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

RubberDials

@Francis85

You're right - in many areas, Sony's products are competitive but not class leading, but crucially in still and video imaging, they are class leading, and that is why claiming they are about to 'quit the industry' is either trolling or delusion.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Malling

Foskito

Sony launch a new Playstation every 6-7 years that is how much they care about it. The product is there and gets released so they can keep on earning money on the games and services associated with their network, they also sell these ps with a loss.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

Malling

Francis
Who has actually been able to maintain a leadership in those fields, the harsh reality is that in consumer electronics it has been a constant changing thing.

Can you remember JVC, IBM, Compaq, Sharp, Pioneer, ATI, Commodore etc.

What about Rollei, Kodak, Polaroid & Minolta and you can now add Olympus to that list.

All share one thing in common they where to conservative and simply put missed the mark when new electronic emerged or reacted to late and to poorly. Several are out of business, sold or transformed them in to hardware manufacturers etc. Today it’s Korea that is the big player, but time will tell if they make the same mistake as many of the Japanese etc. companies did. One thing is certain it’s a very difficult field to navigate, so few companies have managed to stay relevant for long.

I would not be surprised if Samsung and LG are the next to fall from
grace.

Nov 24, 2021*permalink

Djehuty

Japanese semicon industry had its run in the 1990s and 2000s, much like how they overtook the Americans, someone else would overtake them. Nikon and Canon were big in 1980s but are a shell of their former selves today, as they say, get on with the times, your next camera company might be South Korean, Chinese, Dutch, South East Asian or however unlikely, American.

Nov 29, 2021*permalink

MikeRan

This is not a new story. Have you been paying attention?

Nov 24, 2021permalink

snapa

Having a firmware update depends on the Sensor and processor technology. The old sensor may not alow Sony to much with it. It is an older sensor not able to do much more than it can do with firmare updates. Besides that, Sony has many other more recent cameras to sell as an upgrade to the a7II right now.
It would be like updating firmare for the a6000 APS-C camera, not worth it IMO.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

SteveAnderson

Sony updated the firmware in the (R)III series. If those updates were possible on the II i think they would have done it.

The a7II was never a very good camera. DSLR were better. The only good thing about the II was the sensor. Colour, AF low light/speed/tracking, ergos were pretty terrible.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

itsnotthecamera

well it's true that this A7ii had no more commercial gain taking care of its users, but Sony can at least do some charitable act like updating few mechanical related features like the Aperture priority minimum shutter speed setting, etc which not related to the aged sensor.

Nov 24, 2021permalink

MaxDMachy

@ Steve Anderson. For people not demanding great Autofocus and happy to regularly clean the sensor the mkii might be a great camera. I got it and the 85mm f1.8 for portraits. Didn't like it at first. However with the manual focus override providing focus magnification and indication of distance measurement I find this combination most pleasant to use. Current Sony AF is awesome with demanding subjects. Eye AF on black horse with black eyes spot on! How on earth did they do that? Yet for my composition ideas of people I don't like the AI dominance

Nov 24, 2021permalink

SteveAnderson

Max, Yes very specific use where you are utilizing the sensor and a lot of PP.

General use and jpg its not nice at all.

itsnotthecamera, I wish all my cameras got those simple updates as well. I have sure learned to not expect them though. Canon auto ISO/shutter only shows full stop increments. Why? Nikon d5xxx series allow 1/3 stop increments.

Its a back-hand slap in the face.

Nov 24, 2021permalink